September 16,2012 - George Harrison Interview: Hare Krishna Mantra–There’s Nothing Higher -1982 (Continued) Part 2

The Hare Krishna Mantra by George Harrison and London Radha-Krishna Temple devotees was featured four times on England’s most popular television program, Top of the Pops, after rising to the Top 10 throughout England, Europe, and parts of Asia.

If you open up your heart
You will know what I mean
We’ve been polluted so long
But here’s a way for you to get clean

By chanting the names of the Lord and you’ll be free
The Lord is awaiting on you all to awaken and see.

–"Awaiting On You All"
from the album All things Must Pass

 John Lennon and Hare Krishna

Mukunda: Did any of the other Beatles chant?

George: Before meeting Prabhupada and all of you, I had bought that album Prabhupada did in New York .(SIDE A / SIDE B) , and John and I listened to it. I remember we sang it for days, John and I, with ukulele banjos, sailing through the Greek Islands chanting Hare Krishna. Like six hours we sang, because we couldn’t stop once we got going. As soon as we stopped, it was like the lights went out. It went on to the point where our jaws were aching, singing the mantra over and over and over and over and over. We felt exalted; it was a very happy time for us.

Mukunda: You know, I saw a video the other day sent to us from Canada, showing John and Yoko Ono recording their hit song "Give Peace a Chance," and about five or six of the devotees were there in John’s room at the Queen Elizabeth Hotel in Montreal, singing along and playing cymbals and drums. You know, John and Yoko chanted Hare Krishna on that song. That was in May of ’69, and just three months later, Srila Prabhupada was John and Yoko’s house guest for one month at their estate outside London.

While Prabhupada was there, you, John, and Yoko came to his room one afternoon for a few hours. I think that was the first time you all met him.

George: That’s right.

Mukunda: At that point John was a spiritual seeker, and Prabhupada explained the true path to peace and liberation. He talked about the eternality of the soul, karma, and reincarnation, which are all elaborately dealt with in the Vedic literatures.Vedas, predating the Bible and covering all aspects of spiritual knowledge from the nature of the self, or individual soul, to the Supreme Soul (Sri Krishna) and His kingdom in the spiritual world. Although John never made Hare Krishna a big part of his life, he echoed the philosophy of Krishna consciousness in a hit song he wrote just about a year after that conversation, "Instant Karma."

Now what’s the difference between chanting Hare Krishna and meditation?

George: It’s really the same sort of thing as meditation, but I think it has a quicker effect. I mean, even if you put your beads down, you can still say the mantra or sing it without actually keeping track on your beads. One of the main differences between silent meditation and chanting is that silent meditation is rather dependent on concentration, but when you chant, it’s more of a direct connection with God.

Practical Meditation

Mukunda: The maha-mantra was prescribed for modern times because of the fast-paced nature of things today. Even when people do get into a little quiet place, it’s very difficult to calm the mind for very long.

George: That’s right. Chanting Hare Krishna is a type of meditation that can be practiced even if the mind is in turbulence. You can even be doing it and other things at the same time. That’s what’s so nice. In my life there’s been many times the mantra brought things around. It keeps me in tune with reality, and the more you sit in one place and chant, the more incense you offer to Krishna in the same room, the more you purify the vibration, the more you can achieve what you’re trying to do, which is just trying to remember God, God, God, God, God, as often as possible. And if you’re talking to Him with the mantra, it certainly helps.

Mukunda: What else helps you to fix your mind on God?

George: Well, just having as many things around me that will remind me of Him, like incense and pictures. Just the other day I was looking at a small picture on the wall of my studio of you, Gurudasa, and Syamasundara, and just seeing all the old devotees made me think of Krishna. I guess that’s the business of devotees–to make you think of God.

Mukunda: How often do you chant?

George: Whenever I get a chance.

Mukunda: Once you asked Srila Prabhupada about a particular verse he quoted from the Vedas, in which it’s said that when one chants the holy name of Krishna, Krishna dances on the tongue and one wishes one had thousands of ears and thousands of mouths with which to better appreciate the holy names of God.

George: Yes. I think he was talking about the realization that there is no difference between Him standing before you and His being present in His name. That’s the real beauty of chanting–you directly connect with God. I have no doubt that by saying Krishna over and over again, He can come and dance on the tongue. The main thing, though, is to keep in touch with God.

Mukunda: So your habit is generally to use the beads when you chant?

George: Oh, yeah. I have my beads. I remember when I first got them, they were just big knobby globs of wood, but now I’m very glad to say that they’re smooth from chanting a lot.

Mukunda: Do you generally keep them in the bag when you chant?

George: Yes. I find it’s very good to be touching them. It keeps another one of the senses fixed on God. Beads really help in that respect. You know, the frustrating thing about it was in the beginning there was a period when I was heavy into chanting and I had my hand in my bead bag all the time. And I got so tired of people asking me, "Did you hurt your hand, break it or something?" In the end I used to say, "Yeah. Yeah. I had an accident," because it was easier than explaining everything. Using the beads also helps me to release a lot of nervous energy.

Mukunda: Some people say that if everyone on the planet chanted Hare Krishna, they wouldn’t be able to keep their minds on what they were doing. In other words, if everyone started chanting, some people ask if the whole world wouldn’t just grind to a halt. They wonder if people would stop working in factories, for example.

George: No. Chanting doesn’t stop you from being creative or productive. It actually helps you concentrate. I think this would make a great sketch for television: imagine all the workers on the Ford assembly line in Detroit, all of them chanting Hare Krishna Hare Krishna while bolting on the wheels. Now that would be wonderful. It might help out the auto industry, and probably there would be more decent cars too.

Experiencing God Through the Senses

Mukunda: We’ve talked a lot about japa, or personalized chanting, which most chanters engage in. But there’s another type, called kirtana, when one chants congregationally, in a temple or on the streets with a group of devotees. Kirtana generally gives a more supercharged effect, like recharging one’s spiritual batteries, and it gives others a chance to hear the holy names and become purified.

Actually, I was with Srila Prabhupada when he first began the group chanting in Tompkins Square Park on New York’s Lower East Side in 1966. The poet Allen Ginsberg would come and chant with us a lot and would play on his harmonium. A lot of people would come to hear the chanting, then Prabhupada would give lectures on Bhagavad-gita back at the temple.

George: Yes, going to a temple or chanting with a group of other people–the vibration is that much stronger. Of course, for some people it’s easy just to start chanting on their beads in the middle of a crowd, while other people are more comfortable chanting in the temple. But part of Krishna consciousness is trying to tune in all the senses of all the people: to experience God through all the senses, not just by experiencing Him on Sunday, through your knees by kneeling on some hard wooden kneeler in the church. But if you visit a temple, you can see pictures of God, you can see the Deity form of the Lord, and you can just hear Him by listening to yourself and others say the mantra. It’s just a way of realizing that all the senses can be applied toward perceiving God, and it makes it that much more appealing, seeing the pictures, hearing the mantra,smelling the incense, flowers, and so on. That’s the nice thing about your movement. It incorporates everything–chanting, dancing, philosophy, and prasadam. The music and dancing is a serious part of the process too. It’s not just something to burn off excess energy.

Mukunda: We’ve always seen that when we chant in the streets, people are eager to crowd around and listen. A lot of them tap their feet or dance along.

George: It’s great, the sound of the karatalas [cymbals]. When I hear them from a few blocks away, it’s like some magical thing that awakens something in me. Without their really being aware of what’s happening, people are being awakened spiritually. Of course, in another sense, in a higher sense, the kirtana is always going on, whether we’re hearing it or not.

Now, all over the place in Western cities, the sankirtana party has become a common sight. I love to see these sankirtana parties, because I love the whole idea of the devotees mixing it up with everybody, giving everybody a chance to remember. I wrote in the Krsna book introduction, "Everybody is looking for Krishna. Some don’t realize that they are, but they are. Krishna is God … and by chanting His Holy Names, the devotee quickly develops God-consciousness."

Mukunda: You know, Srila Prabhupada often said that after a large number of temples were established, most people would simply begin to take up the chanting of Hare Krishna within their own homes, and we’re seeing more and more that this is what’s happening. Our worldwide congregation is very large–in the millions. The chanting on the streets, the books, and the temples are there to give people a start, to introduce them to the process.

George: I think it’s better that it is spreading into the homes now. There are a lot of "closet Krishnas," you know. There’s a lot of people out there who are just waiting, and if it’s not today, it will be tomorrow or next week or next year.

Back in the sixties, whatever we were all getting into, we tended to broadcast it as loud as we could. I had had certain realizations and went through a period where I was so thrilled about my discoveries and realizations that I wanted to shout and tell it to everybody. But there’s a time to shout it out and a time not to shout it out. A lot of people went underground with their spiritual life in the seventies, but they’re out there in little nooks and crannies and in the countryside, people who look and dress straight, insurance salesmen types, but they’re really meditators and chanters, closet devotees.

Prabhupada’s movement is doing pretty well. It’s growing like wildfire really. How long it will take until we get to a Golden Age where everybody’s perfectly in tune with God’s will, I don’t know; but because of Prabhupada, Krishna consciousness has certainly spread more in the last sixteen years than it has since the sixteenth century, since the time of Lord Caitanya. The mantra has spread more quickly and the movement’s gotten bigger and bigger. It would be great if everyone chanted. Everybody would benefit by doing it. No matter how much money you’ve got, it doesn’t necessarily make you happy. You have to find your happiness with the problems you have, not worry too much about them, and chant Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare.

The Hare Krishna Record

Mukunda: In 1969 you produced a single called "The Hare Krishna Mantra," which eventually became a hit in many countries. That tune later became a cut on the Radha-Krishna Temple album, which you also produced on the Apple label and was distributed in America by Capitol Records. A lot of people in the recording business were surprised by this, your producing songs for and singing with the Hare Krishnas. Why did you do it?

George: Well, it’s just all a part of service, isn’t it? Spiritual service, in order to try to spread the mantra all over the world. Also, to try and give the devotees a wider base and a bigger foothold in England and everywhere else.

Mukunda: How did the success of this record of Hare Krishna devotees chanting compare with some of the rock musicians you were producing at the time like Jackie Lomax, Splinter, and Billy Preston?

George: It was a different thing. Nothing to do with that really. There was much more reason to do it. There was less commercial potential in it, but it was much more satisfying to do, knowing the possibilities that it was going to create, the connotations it would have just by doing a three-and-a-half-minute mantra. That was more fun really than trying to make a pop hit record. It was the feeling of trying to utilize your skills or job to make it into some spiritual service to Krishna.

Mukunda: What effect do you think that tune, "The Hare Krishna Mantra," having reached millions and millions of people, has had on the cosmic consciousness of the world?

George: I’d like to think it had some effect. After all, the sound is God.

Mukunda: When Apple, the recording company, called a press conference to promote the record, the media seemed to be shocked to hear you speak about the soul and God being so important.

George: I felt it was important to try and be precise, to tell them and let them know. You know, to come out of the closet and really tell them. Because once you realize something, then you can’t pretend you don’t know it any more.

I figured this is the space age, with airplanes and everything. If everyone can go around the world on their holidays, there’s no reason why a mantra can’t go a few miles as well. So the idea was to try to spiritually infiltrate society, so to speak. After I got Apple Records committed to you and the record released, and after our big promotion, we saw it was going to become a hit. And one of the greatest things, one of the greatest thrills of my life, actually, was seeing you all on BBC’s Top of the Pops. I couldn’t believe it. It’s pretty hard to get on that program, because they only put you on if you come into the Top 20. It was just like a breath of fresh air. My strategy was to keep it to a three-and-a-half-minute version of the mantra so they’d play it on the radio, and it worked. I did the harmonium and guitar track for that record at Abbey Road studios before one of the Beatles’ sessions and then overdubbed a bass part. I remember Paul McCartney and his wife, Linda, arrived at the studio and enjoyed the mantra.

Mukunda: Paul’s quite favorable now, you know.

George: That’s good. It still sounds like quite a good recording, even after all these years. It was the greatest fun of all, really, to see Krishna on Top of the Pops.

Mukunda: Shortly after its release, John Lennon told me that they played it at the intermission right before Bob Dylan did the Isle of Wight concert with Jimi Hendrix, the Moody Blues, and Joe Cocker in the summer of ’69.

George: They played it while they were getting the stage set up for Bob. It was great. Besides, it was a catchy tune, and the people didn’t have to know what it meant in order to enjoy it. I felt very good when I first heard it was doing well.

Mukunda: How did you feel about the record technically, the voices?

George: Yamuna, the lead singer, has a naturally good voice. I liked the way she sang with conviction, and she sang like she’d been singing it a lot before. It didn’t sound like the first tune she’d ever sung.

You know, I used to sing the mantra long before I met any of the devotees or long before I met Prabhupada, because I had his first record then for at least two years. When you’re open to something it’s like being a beacon, and you attract it. From the first time I heard the chanting, it was like a door opened somewhere in my subconscious, maybe from some previous life.

Mukunda: In the Iyrics to that song "Awaiting on You All," from the All Things Must Pass album, you come right out front and tell people that they can be free from living in the material world by chanting the names of God. What made you do it? What kind of feedback did you get?

George: At that time, nobody was committed to that type of music in the pop world. There was, I felt, a real need for that, so rather than sitting and waiting for somebody else, I decided to do it myself. A lot of times we think, "Well, I agree with you, but I’m not going to actually stand up and be counted. Too risky." Everybody is always trying to keep themselves covered, stay commercial, so I thought, just do it. Nobody else is, and I’m sick of all these young people just boogeying around, wasting their lives, you know. Also, I felt that there were a lot of people out there who would be reached. I still get letters from people saying, "I have been in the Krishna temple for three years, and I would have never known about Krishna unless you recorded the All Things Must Pass album." So I know, by the Lord’s grace, I am a small part in the cosmic play.

Mukunda: What about the other Beatles? What did they think about your taking up Krishna consciousness? What was their reaction? You’d all been to India by then and were pretty much searching for something spiritual. Syamasundara said that once, when he ate lunch with you and the other Beatles, they were all quite respectful.

George: Oh, yeah, well, if the Fab Four didn’t get it, that is, if they couldn’t deal with shaven-headed Hare Krishnas, then there would have been no hope! [Laughter.] And the devotees just came to be associated with me, so people stopped thinking, "Hey, what’s this?" you know, if somebody in orange, with a shaved head, would appear. They’d say, "Oh, yeah, they’re with George."

Mukunda: From the very start, you always felt comfortable around the devotees?

George: The first time I met Syamasundara, I liked him. He was my pal. I’d read about Prabhupada coming from India to Boston on the back of his record, and I knew that Syamasundara and all of you were in my age group, and that the only difference, really, was that you’d already joined and I hadn’t. I was in a rock band, but I didn’t have any fear, because I had seen dhotis, your robes, and the saffron color and shaved heads in India. Krishna consciousness was especially good for me because I didn’t get the feeling that I’d have to shave my head, move into a temple, and do it full time. So it was a spiritual thing that just fit in with my life-style. I could still be a musician, but I just changed my consciousness, that’s all.

Mukunda: You know, the Tudor mansion and estate that you gave us outside London has become one of our largest international centers. How do you feel about the Bhaktivedanta Manor’s success in spreading Krishna consciousness?

George: Oh, it’s great. And it also relates to making the Hare Krishna record or whatever my involvements were. Actually, it gives me pleasure, the idea that I was fortunate enough to be able to help at that time. All those songs with spiritual themes were like little plugs–"My Sweet Lord" and the others. And now I know that people are much more respectful and accepting when it comes to seeing the devotees in the streets and all that. It’s no longer like something that’s coming from left field.

And I’ve given a lot of Prabhupada’s books to many people, and whether I ever hear from them again or not, it’s good to know that they’ve gotten them, and if they read them, their lives may be changed.

Mukunda: When you come across people who are spiritually inclined but don’t have much knowledge, what kind of advice do you give them?

George: I try to tell them my little bit, what my experience is, and give them a choice of things to read and a choice of places to go–like you know, "Go to the temple, try chanting."

Mukunda: In the "Ballad of John and Yoko," John and Yoko rapped the media for the way it can foster a false image of you and perpetuate it. It’s taken a lot of time and effort to get them to understand that we are a genuine religion, with scriptures that predate the New Testament by three thousand years. Gradually, though, more people, scholars, philosophers, and theologians, have come around, and today they have a great deal of respect for the ancient Vaisnava tradition, where the modern-day Krishna consciousness movement has its roots

George: The media is to blame for everything, for all the misconceptions about the movement, but in a sense it didn’t really matter if they said something good or bad, because Krishna consciousness always seemed to transcend that barrier anyway The fact that the media was letting people know about Krishna was good in itself.

Mukunda: Srila Prabhupada always trained us to stick to our principles. He said that the worst thing we could ever do would be to make some sort of compromise or to dilute the philosophy for the sake of cheap popularity. Although many swamis and yogis had come from India to the West, Prabhupada was the only one with the purity and devotion to establish India’s ancient Krishna conscious philosophy around the world on its own terms-not watered down, but as it is.

George: That’s right. He was a perfect example of what he preached.

Mukunda: How did you feel about financing the first printing of the Krsna book and writing the introduction?

George: I just felt like it was part of my job, you know. Wherever I go in the world, when I see devotees, I always say "Hare Krishna!" to them, and they’re always pleased to see me. It’s a nice relationship. Whether they really know me personally or not, they feel they know me. And they do, really.

Mukunda: When you did the Material World album, you used a photo insert taken from the cover of Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-gita showing Krishna and His friend and disciple, Arjuna. Why?

George: Oh, yeah. It said on the album, "From the cover of Bhagavad-gita As It Is by A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami." It was a promo for you, of course. I wanted to give them all a chance to see Krishna, to know about Him. I mean that’s the whole idea, isn’t it?

(TO BE CONTINUED TOMORROW)